Socialist Resistance

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Marko Bojcun (Ukraine Solidarity Campaign)

 ·  27 September 2015  ·  10:05

Marko Bojcun of the Ukraine Solidarity Campaign, professor of East European politics, speaking at the Socialist Resistance day school on imperialism, globalisation and climate change. He follows Catherine Samary in the same session.

Imperialism, Globalisation and Climate Change — a day school organised by London Socialist Resistance  ·  26 September 2015

This is a corrected machine transcript. It began as YouTube's automatic captions, which carry no punctuation and mishear names, and was corrected by hand against the recording: the speaker's own wording is kept, a reading that could not be settled is marked [?], and a passage that could not be recovered at all is marked [inaudible]. Every change is listed at the foot of the page. The recording is the authority; quote from it, not from this.

*This upload carries only the first ten minutes. The whole talk, which runs to 28 minutes and goes on to the Ukraine crisis, NATO and Germany, is at [U1d0SF0XuKg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1d0SF0XuKg).*

00:04 Marko Bojcun: Somebody asked me upstairs as I was coming up which part of Ukraine I'm from. It's [inaudible]. To answer the question — is Russia a new imperialist power? My answer is in the negative. It is not. It's a very old imperial power. It's a power that has been growing since 1482, and with six expansions

00:38 exceeded 20 million square kilometres by the First World War. It was the weakest of the European imperial powers on the eve of the First World War, and it was also an imperialised power by big financial interests of the West European states, and that is why it collapsed under the pressure of the First World War. But it was an imperialist power already, conquering a periphery that extended

01:11 right up to the territories conquered by the other European powers — all the way to China, to the Pacific, to the Baltic, to the Black Sea, into the Carpathian Mountains. Now I suppose the question arises in everybody's head: well, what about the Soviet period? Did this end Russian imperialism as a structure, as a state and military and economic

01:41 structure of domination and oppression of nations by the Russian nation? That's what I mean when I talk. Well, in terms of economic relations it's a very mixed picture, because we do see the emergence of non-Russian peoples from a largely peasant, rural, illiterate existence to fully mature social

02:16 structures, and the acquisition of the capacity to rule themselves quite independently by the time the Soviet Union ended. But this was a very uneven process. What is more important is that in the Soviet period — in the Stalin period, let me be precise — the Soviet state used extra-economic means, state-bureaucratic in their character, to oppress and to deny the right of national self-determination to the non-Russian peoples: through oppression, through the

02:49 extermination of national Bolshevik and communist leaders of the non-Russian peoples, through famine, through migration, through the resettlement of Russians to the non-Russian republics. And if you study the economics of the period, the result in terms of socio-economic development was the uneven development of the nations, of their social structures, of their opportunities in life. If you look at their languages, the same thing happened.

03:20 And so one cannot say that Russian imperialism — and, yes, of course, great Russian chauvinism as an ideology of Russian imperialism — you cannot say that it disappeared in the Soviet period. And after the ten-year hiatus under Yeltsin that Catherine spoke about in the previous presentation, we see the restoration of a

03:53 capitalist imperialism, for the second time, a Russian capitalist imperialism, in the roughly fifteen years of the rule of Vladimir Putin. For the Russian establishment the collapse of the Soviet Union, as Putin has said, was the greatest single tragedy of the twentieth century. This was not a tragedy of the collapse of the Soviet state in the way that we understand it. For them, and for him, it was

04:25 the collapse and the loss of a periphery that the Russian ruling nation had acquired over a period of over 500 years. That was a big tragedy for them, and that is what part of the current project of the Russian state is all about: to reclaim that periphery. Under Putin there has been quite an

04:57 explicit strategy for the restoration of Russian imperial rule. First, from around 1997–98, to reclaim the near abroad, the immediate periphery around Russia, through a state-led strategy of promoting several national economic champions in the energy and

05:28 mineral sectors, to take back the markets and the processing and transiting assets of the former Soviet republics around Russia — namely Ukraine, Belarus, Georgia, Armenia, Kazakhstan. And in the second period, to use that reclaimed territory on the immediate periphery to pave the way for Russian transnational

06:01 corporations such as Gazprom, Sistema, Norilsk Nickel and others — to pave the way for their entry into wider markets, consumption markets, investment areas and technologies beyond this immediate territory, so they can achieve transnational competitive status.

06:32 The paradox of this process is that the Russian economy has been very weakly driven by domestic demand as it has grown, and it does not satisfy its domestic demand. It is not a diversified economy as a result of this growth, nor is the bourgeoisie interested in diversifying that economy. Property

07:06 ownership is too insecure in Russia, and markets and strategic resources are in the gift of state authorities. So it has been more profitable for the oligarchs, who have accumulated wealth from the exploitation of raw materials and energy resources, to invest those proceeds beyond the Russian Federation, and they

07:40 have invested them beyond the Russian Federation in economies that are more diversified, more technologically superior to the Russian one, and which afford them security of ownership of their property and their investments. So the paradox is that while the Russian national economy is not diversified, Russian capitalism is diversified — and is diversified sectorally and

08:12 geographically, among transnational lines of production, consumption and investment. What are the destinations of that investment? A Deutsche Bank report in 2006 showed that by that year Russia was the largest overseas

08:42 investor of capital, outside of its own borders, of any of the BRIC countries. And in 2006 it was investing 160 billion US dollars. It was the second largest investor in the so-called emerging market economies in the world after China — after Hong Kong, let me be specific. And if you look at the

09:13 structure of overseas investment by Russian capital around 2008–2010, 52 per cent was invested in Western Europe, around twenty per cent was invested in the near abroad countries — that is to say immediately around the Russian

09:43 Federation — and about ten per cent in east-central Europe. How much time do I have, please? [inaudible] Just the water, please.

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Correction notes (15)
  • `"which part you create I'm from its Australia"` → "which part of Ukraine I'm from. It's [inaudible]" — the place name is not recoverable and has not been guessed at.
  • `"an imperial eyes power bi big financial interests"` → "an imperialised power by big financial interests". This is the argument's hinge — that pre-1917 Russia was simultaneously an imperialist power and a dependency of West European finance — so the reading matters.
  • `"national balsamic and communist leaders"` → "national Bolshevik and communist leaders".
  • `"state bureaucratic in their credit means"` → "state-bureaucratic in their character"; the captions garble the phrase but the construction "extra-economic means" immediately before fixes the sense.
  • `"by the time something you get ended"` → "by the time the Soviet Union ended".
  • `"under put you there"` → "under Putin there".
  • `"sistema nor else nickel"` → "Sistema, Norilsk Nickel" — the two Russian conglomerates. Neither name appears in the SR archive, so these are from general knowledge; both are standard examples in this argument and fit the sound.
  • `"nor is it spooge was he interested"` → "nor is the bourgeoisie interested".
  • `"they have invested them p on the Russian Federation"` → "beyond the Russian Federation".
  • `"Russian capitalism is that versified"` → "is diversified"; `"diversified sector ly"` → "sectorally".
  • `"the largest of all the brick"` → "of any of the BRIC countries".
  • `"overseas investment by Russian hands"` → "by Russian capital".
  • `"please stop make mess I love you just the water please"` → `[inaudible] Just the water, please` — the captions dissolve as the speaker is called on time; only the last clause is recoverable.
  • "Catherine" at [03:20] is Catherine Samary, who spoke in the same session; her own contribution and her reply to the discussion are separate recordings in this corpus.
  • **This recording is a partial upload.** Its captions are identical to the first 9:43 of `U1d0SF0XuKg`, which carries the whole talk. Both are kept because both are on the channel and both have public URLs, but a reader should be sent to the full one.