00:00 Peter Deane: I'm here to talk — I'm representing Campaign against Climate Change, and I'm here to talk about big business. I was asked to speak about big business's involvement in global warming and in climate change, and also to address issues concerning the COP21 conference in Paris and the march on November 29th. And so I think
00:31 I'll start with something that was mentioned earlier, which is the big news story of the week, which is the VW scandal — and another huge event that occurred in relation to [the] environment this week, which was possibly missed under the excitement of the VW episode, which is that Drax have pulled out of their involvement in the new coal power station called White Rose, which was going to be on [the] site at
01:01 Selby, [and] which was going to be the largest coal power station in the UK. Drax is already the largest single emitter of carbon in the UK, and this would have increased that again. And that's good news, but it also comes with baggage and side issues. And what Drax have actually said is that they are going to leave the organisation of the White Rose coal power station to a consortium called Capture Power [?]. And I
01:35 believe Drax own something like twenty percent interest in Capture Power, so they're not actually leaving the issue aside at all. And Drax are very, very clever and consistently playing a cat-and-mouse game with the government over the huge subsidies that they get. The newspapers are declaring that this is a billion pounds of taxpayer subsidy that they're turning their back on; they're claiming that the subsidies are not enough for what they're doing.
02:05 But earlier on this year they actually [embarked on] a policy [?] of converting their coal turbines to burning wood. That's something that Drax have been doing, and they've converted two turbines to burn each [about] 3.5 million tons of imported wood a year. And what they've said now is [that with] the [dropping] of the coal power station [?] they're going to concentrate on converting more turbines, and they've got the go-ahead
02:36 for a third turbine — although they don't believe they've got enough finance for it — and they say they're going to convert a fourth turbine, which will bring their total to about 15 million tons of imported wood, coming from the southern states of the USA and British Columbia, to be incinerated — in an instant — trees that have taken 40 years to grow and more. And so, one of the things I'm worried about is that I will concentrate too much
03:07 on the negative aspects of what's going on and lose time at the end to talk about some real positive issues in relation to environmental campaigning. But I have to go back to the Volkswagen thing, and the two things [that] have struck me — and I'm sure the first one struck all of you — is that they talked about [a slump in] car sales [?], they talked about a crisis in manufacturing in Europe and financial markets in Europe, and the closest I've heard
03:38 anybody come to discussing the climate implications of fraud in relation to emissions was the impact on public health of the particulate emissions. No references to increases in greenhouse gases, which is a shame on our media industry. And the second thing I heard this morning, which was very intriguing, was that someone referred to the regulatory mechanisms
04:09 that are in place for motor manufacturers, and it reflects something that goes across the board: it is that essentially [it is] self-regulation — self-monitoring and certification — and this is commonplace. And while I'm speaking here on behalf of Campaign against Climate Change, my principal activity is with the campaign group called Biofuelwatch, and [I'm] much more
04:39 [used to] talking about bioenergy than about the broader issues of climate change, so [this] is a first for me, to be actually stepping out of my comfort zone. But I can relate that to FSC certification — Forest Stewardship Council, that little tick you see on your toilet rolls that they make such a fuss about in the television ads. And not many people know that FSC certification is actually another form of self-regulation. The plantation
05:09 owners who supply the paper industry, they pay FSC for the certificate; they also appoint their own inspectors, and they arrange the times and the places and the length and the duration of the visit themselves. So it's in the interests of the appointed regulators to give a positive certification, because their wages are coming from [the] plantation owners themselves. So this
05:39 appears to be what was going on in relation to emissions testing in the motor industry, and there'll be a lot more to be said about that. And incidentally, FSC self-certification is not sufficient for American timber and paper manufacturers, because they think it's too rigorous, and they want to introduce a system called chain of custody. Chain of custody will be that if the person passing the product along in
06:09 the chain of supply guarantees positive certification for environmental sustainability standards, that is sufficient to release you from all other investigations. So along your chain of command, certification will be handed on and the responsibility will be passed on. And so we're finding that, unfortunately, we're finding [ourselves] defending [a] certification system that I've just absolutely
06:40 torn apart [?]. So, talking about business capture of climate issues and [of] the forthcoming Paris talks — [it] is very, very deep. And we've got [a] crisis coming that may force a reconsideration of the [inaudible] regulatory
07:11 systems that we have. And one is going to be what's predicted to be the worst El Niño event in human experience, because of a massive, massive warming in a system called the Pacific Decadal Oscillation. It's a huge area of sea between Hawaii, California and further up North America, that has been continually raising the
07:42 temperature beyond all recordings that we have. So this may force [them], unfortunately [?], to strengthen regulation — and regulation is something that's going to be absolutely missing from the negotiations in Paris. The UN[FCCC] proudly announced last month that it's going to be introducing a
08:14 system called INDCs — intended nationally determined contributions. That means that every country can decide on its own contributions to reductions. And, like the regulatory bodies I've just described, the UN[FCCC]'s role in this is to monitor — [which] means effectively standing on the sidelines and applauding anybody who does a reasonable job at reducing emissions. And
08:45 they have no [inaudible] power, no [inaudible] powers. You know, it's a toothless position that they will occupy. And so Paris [doesn't] hold out that much hope. And James Hansen, you may know, [is] the scientific godfather of climate science, from NASA, and a scientist turned activist. Last month he said that there is hope — he's stressing
09:16 that there is hope — and what he said was that we are much more reliant for this hope on things like the bilateral accords between USA and China than anything that can be done within a broader collaboration between the parties at Paris. And, you know, that is hopeful, especially as China is indeed [inaudible] viable exports [of]
09:48 solar panels and investment in [wind power?]. I mean, technology may provide them with that, which would be a positive [factor] [?]. And so Paris — the draft document is going to be concentrating on market-oriented solutions to the climate crisis. Market-oriented solutions such as carbon capture, trading, and REDD, that's reduced emissions from deforestation and degradation. And
10:19 REDD is already largely discredited across the world, so [a] couple of years ago they introduced and refined it as a system called REDD+. And one of the major provisions that they introduced in REDD+ was that they were asked to define a forest — and they define a forest as any area where plants grow more than a metre tall, which includes — a cotton field can [now] be called a forest. But, [bless]
10:53 them, they are trying. And BECCS is another favourite solution, which is bioenergy with carbon capture and storage. Carbon capture and storage was the great promise of clean coal that Drax were supposed to be delivering, and I know of no other [?] — Drax actually represented the last attempt to do carbon capture and storage in the real world. And in the USA the government['s] pulled [its] financing for it, and last year — and before that Vattenfall,
11:24 and I'm not sure who else — but other companies that were investing in it said that they were no longer going to invest in research, because it has not been shown to be viable by the tests that have [been] done so far. And so they still insist that bioenergy is useful with carbon capture [and] storage. And one of the great and egregious inclusions in the Paris draft documents is that bioenergy
11:55 is classified as renewable. But Biofuelwatch, my main campaigning organisation, is vociferous, and we believe [we are] making breakthroughs in proving that bioenergy is far from carbon neutral. And the White House recently made a statement affirming that President Bush [?] himself, in a statement, said that we cannot call bioethanol a carbon-neutral fuel. But that was a big step forward. And how am I doing for
12:25 time? Oh dear. I'm sure — I have such beautiful quotes that I wanted to include, and I'll give [just] one. This comes from George Bernard Shaw, [who] wrote a letter to *The Times* in 1948 — and he was much disgusted, because what he said was in relation to a submission he made to the government in 1928. And sorry, this was 1947, not 1948. And [this is what] Shaw said: "but they went on grubbing for power in coal mines, and now
12:55 that the atomic bomb has wakened them they are dreaming of nuclear energies, which are frightfully dangerous and enormously expensive. They do not seem to know that our tides are almost unique in the world." And he was talking about 1928, putting a tidal energy capture system in the Kyle of Tongue [?] in Scotland. And in 1928 he proposed [it] to the government; in 1948 he lamented that they went for nuclear [instead of] a proper sustainable energy. And certainly there
13:27 was another 20 years before the first ever tidal system produced energy on any large scale, and that was at La Rance in France in 1966. And now I have to say stuff about the march [on the] 29th and the COP. And I would say — I'm [inaudible] positive things that we could [take] away. And if I could just quickly run them off: James Hansen's claim that bilateral talks will be
13:57 positive, [and] that we shouldn't over-focus on the march — I'm sorry, on the Paris COP [?]. And then the important thing for all of us here who are involved in other campaigning organisations is that there's been a huge surge in young people joining the climate movement. We [had] the two largest ever climate campaigning marches in British history — September last year, March this year; 40,000 estimated in September, which
14:27 is by far and away one of the largest marches held in the capital, and 20,000 estimated at the last one. So in November — and there is a huge surge of youth activity, and not least noticed in the Jeremy Corbyn campaign. And one of the most amazing things about the Jeremy Corbyn campaign is that last week the figure [in] total was sixty thousand people have joined the Labour Party since Jeremy Corbyn's victory in the leadership elections. So this is hugely encouraging. Okay. And so — if I could just say one [more thing]:
15:01 we must not allow this enthusiasm from young people joining the climate movement to be dissipated in the way that it did after Copenhagen. And we must find things that they can apply their energies through in a positive way. And what is most definitely needed [is that] we must get them to campaign against TTIP [?]. We will find the attack on the precautionary principle soon; we must defend the precautionary principle. And there are so many issues [through] that we can keep positivity alive.
15:33 And I'll just give a plug again, as Steve did, for Campaign against Climate Change['s] trade union group publication. This is something positive to disseminate amongst [campaigners], which [is about] keeping that youth spirit alive. And two pounds fifty — [the] funds go to Campaign against Climate Change. And I wish I could say a lot [more] —
## Corrections
This is the most heavily damaged recording in the collection, and a number of readings are marked. The names, acronyms and figures below are secure.
- "**drugs**" (three times) → "**Drax**" — the power station and company the first third of the talk is about. - "the **cup 21** conference" → "the **COP21** conference". - "a coal power station **call of white rose** which were living on site at **Selby**" → "called **White Rose** ... on [the] site at **Selby**". The White Rose carbon capture project at Drax; Drax withdrew from it on 25 September 2015, two days before this recording was published. - "caught **by feel watch**" and "but **I feel watch** my main campaigning organisation" → "**Biofuelwatch**". - "FSC certification **forestry shirts** stewardship council that **didn't take** you see on your **toilet bowls**" → "**Forest** Stewardship Council, that **little tick** you see on your **toilet rolls**". "**PSC** self certification" → "**FSC**". - "admissions testing in the **morning** industry" → "**emissions** testing in the **motor** industry". - "the impact on public health of the **particular** emissions" → "the **particulate** emissions". - "this is **calm place**" → "this is **commonplace**" — the word the whole argument rests on. - "the worst **bear Nino** event in human experience" → "the worst **El Niño** event"; "a system called **vm** Pacific decadal oscillation" → "the **Pacific Decadal Oscillation**". - "a system called **I MDC** intended nationally determined contributions" → "**INDCs**" — the captions get the expansion right and the acronym wrong. - "James Hansen ... the **Civic** Godfather of climate science" → "the **scientific** godfather". - "carbon **kappa** trading and **red** ... reduced emissions from deforestation and **denigration**" → "carbon capture, trading, and **REDD** ... deforestation and **degradation**"; "**red plus**" → "**REDD+**". - "**becks** is another favorite solution" → "**BECCS**", bioenergy with carbon capture and storage, which he expands correctly himself. - "before that **fat fall**" → "before that **Vattenfall**", which abandoned its carbon capture research in 2014. - "the first ever tidal system ... at **laurens** in france in 1966" → "at **La Rance** in France in 1966" — correct for the world's first large tidal power station. - "they went for **nucleus elephant** a proper sustainable energy" → "they went for **nuclear instead of** a proper sustainable energy". - "**aborted would**" → "**imported wood**"; "the **certain** states of the USA" → "the **southern** states". - "since jeremy corbyn's at victories in **indonesia** elections" → "in the **leadership** elections". - "campaign against **samet** change" → "Campaign against **Climate** Change". - "we must get them to campaign against **heater**" → "campaign against **TTIP** [?]". John Hilary of War on Want spoke on TTIP at this same conference, and TTIP's threat to the precautionary principle — which is Deane's very next sentence — was the central argument of that campaign. The reading is an inference and is marked. - "**President Bush [?]** himself" — kept as the captions give it and flagged: the White House statement he describes was made in 2015, under Obama, so the attribution is doubtful and cannot be resolved from the captions. - Further marked readings: "a consortium called **Capture Power [?]**"; "they actually **[embarked on] a policy [?]**"; "the **[dropping] of the coal power station [?]**"; "they talked about **[a slump in] car sales [?]**"; "defending [a] certification system that I've just absolutely **torn apart [?]**"; "the **[inaudible]** regulatory systems"; "this may force [them], **unfortunately [?]**, to strengthen regulation"; "they have no **[inaudible]** power"; "investment in **[wind power?]** ... a positive **[factor] [?]**"; "I know of no other **[?]**"; "the **Kyle of Tongue [?]** in Scotland"; "on the **Paris COP [?]**". - The recording ends mid-sentence, on "and I wish I could say a lot [more]".