> **Note on this transcript.** This is by far the most damaged recording in the collection. The speaker has a strong Lancashire accent and the automatic captions fail on roughly a third of it, in long stretches rather than single words. What follows recovers the argument, the names and the figures, which are secure; where the words cannot be recovered they are marked `[inaudible]` rather than guessed at. **This one needs re-transcribing from the audio.** Anyone quoting from it should listen to the recording first.
*Steve Hall of the Lancashire anti-fracking movement, speaking before John Hilary at the same conference. Peter Deane, speaking later, plugs the One Million Climate Jobs pamphlet "again, as Steve did".*
00:00 Steve Hall: I just want to start off by [saying] it would be dishonest of me to say that climate change and fracking is something that everybody involved in the anti-fracking [movement] endorses [?], because that would be very far from the truth. The fact [is], there's various prominent people involved in the anti-fracking movement such as Ian Crane, [who] is a conspiracy theorist. Another thing — I was down at Barton Moss, [they] used to do a lot [of] singing there, and the third verse of one of his songs was "you can stick your global warming up your arse". So, you know,
00:33 there isn't that direct link, [for] some people, [that] the link with fracking is something that's got to be taken into the movement [?]. Which I would say perhaps — [the] majority of it [?] [is] more driven by the effects of [fracking] on people's house prices than about climate change. And actually, whilst we might disapprove of that, that's actually what's driving a big resistance in virtually every single community in this country where they're proposing to do it.
01:03 [There's] now, I think it was, 450 different groups. Everywhere they try [and] apply [to] do it, [the] first thing that happens [is] a massive response from [the] community, across all social classes and everything. And [that's] one of the reasons that the governments are going to have a big problem trying to carry this through. And in fact I would say most of [the] people involved in it [are] pretty optimistic that we're going to win on this one. So far the anti-fracking movement is basically undefeated. A lot of people [would]
01:34 say that the key thing is all about [air] quality, potential pollution of the water supply, and the traffic going through — all of which are very valid points in their own right, and obviously everybody involved would agree with them. Well, the tactic right from the beginning of this [has been] to link it directly with climate change: instead of being an "anti" movement, you know, just against fracking, [I'd] say we should really be a "for" movement instead. One of the things that was very strong is the pamphlet —
02:05 [I] would urge you [to] buy copies of [it], everybody — the One Million Climate Jobs pamphlet. And [we] said: instead of fracking, what we really want is this. [inaudible] That particular position [has gone] from strength to strength. [It's] backed [by] Friends of the Earth, War on Want, supported [by] the Green Party. I would say [it's] possibly just about the majority opinion in the movement now: that instead of investing in fracking, what we should be doing is investing in renewables and energy conservation, things like that. And that's a much
02:35 sounder idea than fracking, [devastating the] countryside and polluting us and increasing climate change [?]. Because I usually speak on platforms where everybody before me says, you know, pollution, water pollution, whatever, and [I take] a tack [of saying]: well, even if it didn't cause [all that], it did add to the threat of climate change, which [they] clearly do. I've been on radio interviews where I [met] so-called experts from Cuadrilla, [or one of] the fracking companies, arguing that shale gas is a transition fuel, [that]
03:09 it's a good way to transition from coal and oil into renewables. But the reality is, researchers [at] Cornell University in America carried out [a study of the methane] involved in fracking, [inaudible], which shows an average leak of between two and a half percent and nine and a half percent of all the wells. That's included abandoned wells, many obviously recently been abandoned because of the low oil prices — that is basically based more on economic[s]. When you bear in mind that methane gas is
03:40 about 25 times more potent [as] a greenhouse gas than what CO2 is — obviously, leaks of between two and a half and eight percent of something that's 25 times more potent than [CO2], [and] if you were burning the gas [it] produce[s] the CO2 [anyway]. Obviously I would say there's a good case [?] [inaudible] reopening coal-fired power stations [inaudible]. So, you know, [as] I said: even if it was safe — "with knobs on" — [we don't] actually need it.
04:11 Somebody actually used that phrase, [that it has] to be safe "with knobs on". Because we shouldn't [risk] the water and [we] don't need it, when there's other things like that at our disposal which would create more jobs. [The] expectation of jobs created by the fracking industry started off — they [paid] a company, I think [it was] called AMEC, to do research, [and] they came up with about 30,000 it would employ if it was all [to go ahead]. And then [the] following week David Cameron inflated that himself to 60,000. He just
04:41 arbitrarily increased [it] by [a] hundred percent. And then a few months later the [Lords?] [inaudible] quarter [of] a million. Even if it was quarter of a million — and, you know, it's totally grossly exaggerated — [inaudible]. We estimate about 20 times more jobs would come from investing [the] same type of money in [renewables], [which] would also reduce our energy bills. They keep saying [that] fracking [will] reduce our energy bills, but [in] reality [inaudible] this gas [price is] determined
05:12 internationally. What *will* do [it] is things [like] insulating people's houses and things like that — [that] will bring the bills down. [It] would also [be a] way to secure our own domestic energy supply [and] reduce CO2 emissions by eighty-five percent. [inaudible] The big thing I always argue: Lord Stern was [asked] by Gordon Brown's government to do a report on the cost of climate change. The result of his investigation was [that] he estimated it would cost twenty times more in ten years' time to have the
05:44 same effect on climate change. And I always use this example: imagine [inaudible] your roof's knackered. You fix it now, it costs you a thousand pound; or if you leave it for 10 years and the water gets in, not only will it cost you more on that, but [inaudible] could fall [in] [inaudible] and it's a catastrophe [that] costs you 20 times more. Most sane people would rather — possibly even take a [loan] out, all right? — to save the massive cost down the line. And yet
06:14 [inaudible] as long as we've got to do this instead. So, big problem. In terms of news updates about where we're at: [the] government's [having] difficulty trying to roll this programme out. It's determined to do so. [inaudible] the Infrastructure Act [inaudible] just before the general election, which basically allows them, [if] it's a big project in
06:46 the national interest, it can be sanctioned by the [government] directly. And also, as a result of the recent [Lancashire] [inaudible] issue where the local county council planners turned down Cuadrilla's application, they're also introducing measures now that [say] if after 16 weeks local planners, councils, can['t] make a decision, [the government] will just step in and make the decision for [them] — which you can imagine what [that means]. We've also [got] a situation just close to Wigan where I live, Skelmersdale, where they
07:18 wanted to dump a lot of the frack fluid and [the] solid waste in this landfill site in Skelmersdale. It also got turned down by Lancashire County Council as well. By every single elected body that could possibly stop it, [it was] turned down. So what they did was they [made it] into a bigger project, so [it] then came under these Infrastructure Act directives, and now that's [going] ahead and it's [inaudible] five times bigger than the original. [inaudible]
07:48 [inaudible] I live near Wigan, [to] dump all the waste, or a lot of it. And obviously when you think [that] only a few years ago [the Tories] were going on about localism — you know, they were going to change the law [so] local residents [could] object [to] houses being built. You know, [if] you're [opposed] to fracking, you're not going to [have a] say in that. Whereas we're now in [the] fourteenth licensing round in terms of [the] areas offered up for potential [companies]
08:18 to come in and explore. These include sites [of] Special Scientific Interest, [areas] of outstanding natural beauty — [and] they want to frack them. But [here's what] I'm sure you'll like: Witney. [inaudible] in all of the south of England there's all these areas been given [up], but one place [inaudible] seems to be [exempt] [inaudible], and if you look at it, if you zoom in on Witney constituency, [that's] where it's [inaudible] — but it's not happening [in] Witney.
08:50 So, the attitude [of] the anti-fracking movement [is that] we [fight] this on a number of fronts [inaudible]: the political [inaudible], the economic [front] [inaudible], by basically just making [it] cost — I guess an absolute fortune to do this stuff. [At] Barton Moss [there was] a big attack on the investors, you know, saying it's not worth your while if you do it. The share prices currently for Cuadrilla and people [like] IGas, they're
09:22 absolutely rock bottom, as few people want to take up the sites because [of] the concern about the opposition they're going to get. [inaudible] the government's still determined to drive [ahead] with it. And all I can say in terms of the movement that [I've been] directly involved in [inaudible] four years now, [and] some people who are involved in it, is that [inaudible] that confident [inaudible] movement [inaudible]. I think that's all pretty
09:53 well and good. [inaudible] people like me are pushing the climate change thing. Various things have come out of it, such as for example next — the week after next — one [of] these, the big demo in Manchester, the events; [and] on the following week [inaudible] conference on climate change, Time to Act, which I shall be going [to]. If any of you stayed up in Manchester for that, you might be [inaudible]. [inaudible] In terms of where we as an anti-fracking movement [are], [it] is very upbeat, [we're] confident, and [inaudible].
## Corrections
- "**Ian crear** is a conspiracy theorist" → "**Ian Crane**", a prominent figure in the anti-fracking movement at the time. - "I was down at **bar but mas**" → "**Barton Moss**", the anti-fracking protest camp at Salford, named again near the end of the talk. - "you can stick your **mobile warming** up your **ass**" → "your **global warming** up your **arse**" — the line is the entire point of the opening anecdote. - "the **pump word** ... the climate jobs pamphlet" → "the **pamphlet** ... the **One Million Climate Jobs** pamphlet", the Campaign against Climate Change trade union group publication that Peter Deane plugs later in the day "again, as Steve did". - "the **tack Arctic** right from the beginning" → "the **tactic**"; "instead of being an **unsafe** movement" → "instead of being an **'anti'** movement", against which he sets "a 'for' movement". - "**share gases** would transition fuel" → "**shale gas is** a transition fuel"; "from **cold and our list of** into renewables" → "from **coal and oil** into renewables". - "an average **link** of between two and a half percent" → "an average **leak**" — the finding the argument rests on. - "that's included **abundant** wells, many obviously recently been **abundant** because of the **law** oil prices" → "**abandoned** wells ... recently been **abandoned** because of the **low** oil prices". - "researcher **cornell university**" → "researchers [at] **Cornell University**" — correct. The captions' "**graffiti**", in "Bartoli and graffiti involved in fracas", is almost certainly **Ingraffea**, the Cornell co-author of the methane leakage work; the surrounding words cannot be recovered, so the attribution is left out of the text. - "they **[paid]** a company, I think [it was] **called AMEC**" → from "the cold air Mac"; AMEC produced the government's strategic environmental assessment for shale gas. - "**Lord stern** us by **God roads** government" → "**Lord Stern** was [asked] by **Gordon Brown's** government" — the Stern Review, commissioned when Brown was Chancellor. - "turned down by **like Security Council**" → "by **Lancashire County Council**", which refused Cuadrilla's applications in June 2015; the same misreading produces "the recent **literally we had it like** issue" earlier. - "local **plumbers** councils" → "local **planners**, councils". - "the **infrastructure act** ... **a lot of whether any of you nor bad Luck's** just before the general election" → the **Infrastructure Act**, passed just before the 2015 general election; the clause between is unrecoverable. - "people **are a gas**" → "people [like] **IGas**", the UK shale company. - "only a few years ago **toys** were going on about localism" → "**the Tories**"; "change the law to local residents **from jet two** houses being built" → "[so] local residents [could] **object to** houses being built". - "**whiteness**", "**Whitney**" and "**witness**" → **Witney**, David Cameron's constituency. The joke — that every sort of protected land has been licensed except the Prime Minister's own seat — survives only because the name appears three times. - "**up there is about studying** national natural beauty" → "[areas] **of outstanding** natural beauty". - "conference on climate change **time to act**" → **Time to Act**, the Campaign against Climate Change event. - "**des moines** Manchester" → "the big **demo in** Manchester".