00:00 Terry Conway: [...] place since the election. It seems much longer than that. And in those five days — I think once we'd all recovered, and it certainly took me a couple of days to recover from the horror and the shock — it's already become clear what some of the things [are] that we're going to be facing over the next five years. Some of them we knew already.
00:30 You know, I mean, I suppose one of the things that was most obvious to me, because the Tories had said it, and it certainly is what they were planning to do, [is] what they are planning to do in terms of trade union law. And that's, I think, really important, terrifying: that they will bring in laws that mean that unless you have a ballot [with] 50[%] of those eligible participating and 40[%] voting yes, then strike action will be illegal. We've already been, you
01:03 know, very, very hampered by the existing trade union legislation, but this is clearly an attack on public sector [unions] [inaudible], [who]'ve been able to continue to take strike action even if not as often as we would like. And so, today the papers [are] full of the attacks on the BBC that are going to come. I know that everybody in this room has probably been involved in protests complaining about
01:34 the coverage, the BBC coverage, not being enough in our favour — but actually, from the point of view of the ruling class, it's still a thorn in their side, and the breadth of coverage, that — if, for example, if people have been in the States and you compare the output of the BBC with any of the broadcasters in the States, [it's] terrifying. And it feeds into what's happening with the marketisation and the
02:05 destruction of genuine education, in terms of producing a very functional society in which people [inaudible] to be able to think for themselves. We're obviously going to see — and I think the speculation in the press today, that Cameron will bring the referendum forward to 2016, is probably wrong, but whenever we see the referendum
02:37 on the EU, it's undoubtedly going to be a carnival of reaction. And, you know, Farage's resignation lasted 30 seconds, and UKIP are going to be rubbing their hands with glee. We've seen — one of the things that they've announced very quickly: we already knew that disabled people had been very much on the front line of the attacks of austerity
03:07 prior to the election. Access to Work is one of the first things that they're going to attack, and so disabled people are yet again in the front line. So there's an awful lot of things that we need to discuss and think about, how we're going to resist. But when we step back from the shock of the fact that the polls [were] completely wrong, I think — without being complacent —
03:40 we can say that, although we didn't put all the bits of the jigsaw together correctly, actually some of the things we've been talking about over quite a long period of time actually came to fruition in what was a horrible thing on Friday morning. So if we look at what were some of the key elements of what happened. Firstly, I think everything that we've said, and the importance that we've understood, about the developments in
04:11 Scotland over the last long period of time, culminating in the referendum campaign and everything that came out of it: understanding that the movement — it wasn't, as both Labour and the Tories tried to paint it, a campaign of reactionary nationalism. And it's very interesting, we heard it in the run-up to the referendum, and then we didn't hear it again until this week,
04:42 after the election. You started hearing interviews with people who joined the SNP, and in one case an interview with somebody who's now an MP for the SNP, who'd been [a] Labour Party member for decades and said: I didn't leave the Labour Party, the Labour Party left [me]. And I think, you know, our understanding of that dynamic has been very important. Our
05:14 understanding of the way that Labour played a central role in Project Fear — you can say, thinking about it, that Thatcher destroyed the Tory party in Scotland with the introduction of the community charge, and then Alistair Darling, assisted by his not-so-glamorous assistant Gordon Brown, [has] just destroyed Labour in Scotland, through their completely craven adoption of unionism
05:46 and hand in hand with the Tories. I think what will happen now in Scotland is very interesting, because clearly the SNP have seen a massive growth in membership. It's clear that they're going to play a significant role not only in politics in Scotland but in politics in Britain in the coming period. Certainly one of my favourite —
06:18 and there aren't many to choose from — but favourite moments of Thursday night was the victory of the young 20-year-old [Mhairi Black], and everything that I've seen since, including [her holding an] SNP Friends of Palestine poster [?], leads me to believe that there's somebody to watch. And I think there will be divisions and debates opening up in the SNP itself, which will be interesting to
06:50 watch. I think what's also clear — on Saturday night I was at the Rich Mix in Bethnal Green listening to Cat Boyd from the Radical Independence Campaign. One of the things she said, and I think again it goes back to the fact that the Yes campaign was an anti-austerity movement, [is that] RIC [and] other organisations in Scotland will be holding the SNP and [others] to account, they having
07:20 stood on an anti-austerity platform. There is still a vibrant movement [to hold them] to account and to make sure that, you know, if people start thinking they can do dodgy deals, there's going to be a backlash against them. So I think that's important. I think we understood the importance of UKIP. There were differences among — I mean, I think the last time I was in this room, and a number of us were in this room, was our public meeting before the
07:51 election on UKIP, in the situation where many people on the left said UKIP is just a flash in the pan, it would go away, you know, it's going to do well in the Euros but it won't be consistent. Where I think there were differences amongst comrades is the extent to which [UKIP] would punish Labour in its own heartlands. And certainly I was never convinced either way, but as soon as I saw the first result coming in from
08:22 Sunderland it was very clear that those people who'd argued that it was going to do damage in Labour's heartlands [were] very, very clear. Yes, it's true that the first three results were Labour victories, but they were also UKIP seconds, and UKIP very significant seconds, and that's not an unimportant thing. We also said absolutely consistently for 15 months that the election was Labour's
08:52 to lose. I don't think any of us [thought] quite [how] badly they were going to do it, but I think that was absolutely right. And what we're now seeing in terms of the Labour Party since the election is an overwhelming further lurch to the right, with the Blairites obviously in complete ascendancy. I wouldn't be surprised if David Miliband came back; clearly [he's declined] to make that
09:26 statement, [but] publicly he's keeping his options open. And while I think Ian Lavery will at least attempt to stand — [as a] member of the NUM and the chair of the Trade Union Group of Labour MPs, [he] will attempt to put [a candidate] forward [?] — there's no doubt that the overwhelming dominant rhetoric is to the right. And I think one thing
09:57 that we [said], but I think we didn't emphasise enough, which Susan draws out very well in an article that she wrote this weekend — and which will be up on the website as soon as I've got time to put it up tomorrow — is the way that the debate on the economy played into this. Because I think that they'd completely conceded ground to the Tories
10:28 by being the party of austerity lite, and that meant that they couldn't answer the argument with the Tories that they were to blame for the crisis. And so, in this ridiculous situation where people were absolutely furious with what the banks did, and that actually gave the opportunity to the left to explain how capitalism as a system works and all of those things — what happens [is] the Tories are able to
11:00 get away with saying "oh, it's too much spending" [?]. And the harvest of that is [that] millions of people will resist their own library closure, their own old people['s] centre, whatever, but don't see the possibility of fighting austerity, or cuts, or whatever we want to call them, as a whole — because they don't see that there's any alternative. And Labour are completely complicit and
11:33 signed up in all of that, and I think it's something that we really need to find ways to raise in a more systematic way. We were wrong about the Liberal Democrats. [It's] clear that, you know, the Lib Dems lost — not only lost more votes. And I have to say that I thought that they would hang on to some of their traditional bases, particularly in places like [the] South West which were old Liberal strongholds before the Lib Dems
12:04 were invented, and that, you know, some people would be seen as reasonably good constituency MPs. I knew that they had had it with the generation that they conned over the war and then over tuition fees, but I thought they might hang on to more of their older base. But they didn't. And obviously, in a situation where the maths was very tight, those
12:34 things were very important. I think from the point of view of the radical left, we knew that it was going to be a wipeout [?]. I think what the results overall [have] reinforced for me is how much damage a history of past sectarianism and self-proclamation has done us, and that
13:07 [inaudible] — "given credit" is the wrong word, "given credence" is the right word. But I think it's important that we don't draw the wrong conclusions from that. I think there were two things that I see as being some of the dominant discourse coming from other people on the left. [The first] one is that we just have
13:40 to try a bit harder. Again, as I say, I was at this do at the Rich Mix on Saturday night, and one of the people on the panel was Owen Jones. He was genuinely quite entertaining and amusing, even if I don't agree with him politically. [His] strategy [?] was absolutely awful — and he was absolutely awful because, basically, what he said is we all have to do four times more. Now, in a room that
14:13 was full of lots of people that I knew had been doing four times more than was humanly possible, it was really not helpful, because it's moralism, and it's — you know, it's just hopeless. [inaudible] And on the other hand, I also think that to say "oh well, elections don't get us
14:44 anywhere, let's just do community organising" — [we] absolutely [have] to do organising in the workplace and in communities, and we have to look at [how we] create even better ways of joining those things up. But I absolutely think one of the things we can see from the election is, look at the Green [vote] [?], who, you know, under this hideous
15:14 undemocratic system — and we absolutely have to make fighting for PR a higher priority for the left in this situation. And I believe Douglas Carswell is going to carry through his acceptance speech by spearheading [a] campaign, and I think the left absolutely needs to, because it's an outrageous system. But, you know, the Greens are seeing a massive surge because, among other things,
15:46 they have consistently and patiently been [inaudible] over a long period of time. And I think what that means — I think the best results we could see outside Scotland, which is obviously a completely different situation, [were where] candidates [were] extremely well targeted, so they stood
16:16 mainly against high-profile Tories; they ran a campaign that was planned and organised well in advance; they had the candidates selected [a year] in advance. And I think those are the sort of things that we need to learn lessons from in terms of elections, as well as picking up on some
16:49 of the local things that we need to, you know, which obviously vary from situation to situation. So — I think [inaudible]'s probably telling me to shut up. Yes. So.
## Corrections
- "the **tourists**" (twice) → "the **Tories**". - "people who joined the **FMP** ... somebody who's now an **amp** for the **F the SNP** who'd been like **department members** for decades and said **I didn't mean the labor party like the left man**" → "joined the **SNP** ... now an **MP** for the SNP who'd been [a] **Labour Party** member for decades and said: **I didn't leave the Labour Party, the Labour Party left [me]**". The captions destroy the quoted line, which is the point of the anecdote. - "the way that **lady** played a central role in **Project fear**" → "the way that **Labour** played a central role in Project Fear". - "Thatcher destroyed the Tory party in Scotland with the introduction of **the concerts**" → "**the community charge**", the poll tax's official name. - "**Aleister darling** and an assisted by his **Not So Glamorous as this** and Gordon Brown" → "**Alistair Darling**, assisted by his **not-so-glamorous assistant** Gordon Brown". - "their completely **craving** adoption of unionism" → "completely **craven**". - "the victory of the young 20 year olds" → the young 20-year-old, identified here as **Mhairi Black**, the only twenty-year-old elected in 2015 and the youngest MP since the seventeenth century. The name is supplied in brackets; the recording does not give it. - "the **rich Max** in **Bethel green**" and "the **rich Rick which makes God it's on to say**" → the **Rich Mix** in **Bethnal Green**, both times. - "**cat Boyd** from the radical independent **convention**" → "**Cat Boyd** from the **Radical Independence Campaign**", which she then abbreviates and the captions render as "is rig" → **RIC**. - "the yes campaign **wasn't until austerity** movement" → "**was an anti-austerity** movement"; "stood on the **Nancy austerity** platform" → "on an **anti-austerity** platform". The captions turn her claim into its exact opposite. - "punish labor in its own **apartments**" → "in its own **heartlands**", as the captions themselves get right one sentence later. - "the elections was **labered** to lose" → "the election was **Labour's** to lose". - "with the **Blair rights**" → "the **Blairites**"; "**David Miller Band**" → "**David Miliband**". - "**Ian Lavery** ... member of the **num** and the chair of the **young** Trade union group of Labor MPS" → member of the **NUM** and chair of the **Trade Union Group** of Labour MPs — the same position he holds in John McDonnell's 2014 talk elsewhere in this collection. - "the party of austerity **lives**" → "austerity **lite**". - "gave the opportunity to **the last** to explain how capitalism works" → "to **the left**". - "**don't say** the possibility of **finding** austerity" → "**don't see** the possibility of **fighting** austerity". - "the **little Democrats**" → "the **Liberal Democrats**"; "before the **lib demons** were invented" → "the **Lib Dems**". - "from the point of view of the radical **mask**" → "the radical **left**". - "we all have to do **full times** more ... more than was humanly **both**" → "**four times** more ... than was humanly **possible**". - "they stood mainly against **my profile jewelries**" → "against **high-profile Tories**"; "candidates selected **one** in advance" → "selected **a year** in advance". - "the **monetization** ... of genuine education" → "the **marketisation**". - "**the greens aren't seeing** a massive surge because among other things they have consistently and patiently been [building]" → "the Greens **are** seeing a massive surge". The captions insert a negation that contradicts the explanation attached to it. - Marked and uncertain: "an attack on public sector **[unions] [inaudible]**", where the captions' "University" may be UCU; "including [her holding an] SNP Friends of Palestine poster **[?]**"; "attempt to put **[a candidate]** forward **[?]**"; "it's too much spending **[?]**"; "a **wipeout [?]**"; "**[His]** strategy **[?]** was absolutely awful"; "look at the Green **[vote] [?]**". - "**Susan**", who wrote the article on the economy she refers to, is not given a surname on the recording; Socialist Resistance had more than one writer of that name.