00:00 John McDonnell: In the context of what John [Stewart] has said — the issues that are going to become critical over the next 18 months — we need to consider our role, both as individuals within trade unions, or individuals within NGOs, or whatever role we play. I've just come from Heathrow — not quite, not by plane — because we were demonstrating outside the detention centres at Heathrow. It's my constituency. There are a thousand people locked up in those detention centres who have committed no crime. It's interesting: they
00:30 argue that Heathrow's full up, no capacity, but they have the capacity to deport people on a daily basis. The two issues I want to focus on, that will become critical over the next 18 months, are aviation expansion and rail renationalisation. And let me do rail renationalisation first. Exactly as John said, every opinion poll now shows that there's a majority of support for renationalisation. I thought the most interesting one recently was 85% of UKIP supporters in
01:03 favour of renationalisation of rail — which is interesting, the way the individual supporters line up on some of these policy issues. And where it's at at the moment is that the franchises are now coming through. The East Coast line franchise — it's been brought, as you know, into public control and management at the moment, and the Tories are trying to push that out to be re-franchised at the end of the year, so [they get it] under
01:34 [way] before the next election. But interestingly enough, every other franchise then comes up for renewal, for re-bidding, in the lifetime of the next government. So four weeks ago we had a meeting of the Trade Union Group of MPs in Parliament, which is the group chaired by Ian Lavery — he was superb — and that's the Trade Union Group serviced by the TUC. And we brought together the rail unions with a group of academics, and they did a presentation, a detailed paper presentation, to Labour MPs on the way in which rail can be
02:06 renationalised without any cost, and also looked at and gave us that timetable — the franchises, each one of them coming up for renewal in the next [Parliament]. But then [it] also looked at the opportunities that were there on the different modes of management of a new system, ownership and control. And obviously the RMT proposal, that I think is now gaining significant support across the [inaudible], around a system that's managed by
02:39 the combination of passengers [and] workers themselves, with democratic representation as well, was the one which many of the academics were arguing actually could be the ideal model, and most probably tested as the most popular one. And where that's got to — and that's why I want to drill down into these issues now, about what concrete actions we need to take this coming period — where that has got to is that, having done that presentation to a significant number of Labour MPs, there's a sort of a groundswell of support
03:09 building up. It says: try and get that committed within a Labour manifesto. And some of you may have seen, a few weeks ago, there was a letter — it got some publicity — with a whole range of Labour candidates signing up to that as well. In addition to that we have [inaudible] in the Green Party committed to renationalisation as well, and looking at the same sort of similar sort of models of democratic ownership and control. So there we have the policy. So, if you like, the theme — it's,
03:39 as they say in marketing terms, the theme. What we need now is the scheme: how do we promote that, and how do we sell it more widely? I don't think that there's an awful lot of selling to do to the general public. Where it does mean selling is amongst the Labour and trade union movement, to give people confidence, actually, that, one, it will secure them votes — that's the first interest, is going to get elected — but then secondly it will also ensure that it's a keynote policy in the run-up to the general election, that they can go out there and campaign on and have
04:11 confidence about. Where are we at? Well, the neoliberal faction then, in the Labour Party around Ed Balls and others, are refusing to allow any of these front-bench spokespersons to give any commitment with regard to anything around expenditure. And even when the new child support agency proposal [?] was put forward, somebody's argued against it and voted against it, even [on] forgone expenditure — which is a bizarre way of looking at how you plan the next government's funding. However, I think at the moment
04:42 the momentum has built: majority support certainly from the Labour Party — not all other groups, obviously, to the left of the Labour Party as well — and majority support amongst trade unions and the TUC, a majority of support in the general public. So I think there's almost now, not an inevitability, but there's such a momentum, we could see by the autumn a commitment given to some form of process by which rail was brought back into public ownership. Ed Miliband's people, as far as I'm
05:13 aware, so far are only committing themselves to, or willing to consider, allowing the public sector to bid. Now, I know that sounds timid, but to be honest that's a near bleeding miracle from what it was over 17 years, when there was a refusal — if you remember, some of you, we campaigned just to keep one of the lines that went bankrupt in public ownership, so we could use it as a benchmark and demonstrate that properly [?]. But at least that's an advance. But I think we're on the tipping point of
05:45 pushing them out towards the process of bringing it all back into public ownership. So I think this next six to nine months, before the shutters are put down on the construction of Labour's manifesto, is absolutely key, and the momentum needs to be maintained: both at every union conference [?] — those ones that are associated with rail obviously are committed, the others, looking at more wider social issues, addressing this issue as well — building that to the TUC, forcing it on the Labour
06:17 Party agenda. But the fight isn't obviously just within the Labour Party, because the Labour Party leadership will only follow if it is electorally popular. So therefore the campaign is as important outside of the Labour Party — in fact more important out there than it is within the party itself. And I think that building up a momentum in any way we possibly can, creatively, putting this issue on the agenda, giving confidence to what is a timid Labour Party leadership that this could be popular, is actually popular — and therefore the ability then for those on the
06:48 progressive side [?] within the Labour front bench to face down the neoliberals, I think gives us a real opportunity. And I'm usually a pessimist on these things. This isn't wild optimism; this is an element of actually looking as objectively as I can at where we are strategically in this campaign for renationalisation. That's on rail. With regard to the other issue, then — these are without doubt Siamese twins [?], most of our lives; this is like your life
07:20 passing in front of you again — is on expansion at Heathrow, on the third runway in my constituency. Again, what the other major parties have done is they've done a deal not to have any — to close down any discussion about expansion of aviation in London [and] the south east before the general election. They set up the Howard Davies commission under the Tories, with the support of Labour and the Lib Dems: the Davies commission not to report until after the general election. We met Howard Davies, and I said, well, you could report sooner, because from January I'm
07:52 going off for four months. Why is that? That's what they've told him to [do]. Then he caught himself and said, I shouldn't have said that — actually, academically it'll be a much better document if we give it longer. It is a deal to avoid any dispute between the main parties on the expansion of Heathrow in particular before the general election. Again, what we're trying to campaign for — and we're working on a cross-party basis with a whole range of Conservative MPs and others — is to say
08:23 at least the minimum demand should be for the parties to be honest and actually declare their policies before the general election, so people can make their judgment before the general election. Because I think we need to expose just how much the main political parties have been captured again by the aviation lobby. We forced them back with one of the most significant environmental campaigns in the history of this country, to defeat them over the third runway last time round. The combination of those local campaigners, combined with Climate Camp
08:54 coming to my constituency, combined with what John and HACAN have been doing for years, created out of what was almost a NIMBYist campaign, to be frank, at the beginning, something that had much wider significance — in fact global significance. So people — it wasn't just about to save our home, save our community, of course that was important — it was important for people to be educated about the impact of aviation on global warming as well. And those little old ladies in their blue rinses sitting on the straw bales at Climate Camp were a wonder to behold. We all learned a lot as a result
09:24 of that. So defeating them at that stage was absolutely significant. But they've come back again, as we knew they would. They've come back again, and to defeat them this time around, I think, would be much more significant. It would send a message of confidence to everyone campaigning on environmental issues, but certainly confidence across the globe, campaigning against the expansion of aviation [and] the impact of [inaudible]. How do we do that? Well, we mobilise the local communities, as we are doing of course; we continue with that, and
09:55 creatively we look at different ideas, because you've got to keep people's spirits up [?]. And remember, in my area the airport itself has bought up a lot of the homes as well. But what's interesting, the people that they've rented those homes out to are now saying: well, hang on, you're renting us our home now, and you might own it, but it's still our home, still our community, our children still go to the local school that you [want to] demolish as well. So we've incorporated as many of them into the campaign as possible. But it needs — again, it needs us all now to actually be arguing within our own organisations that this has
10:26 become a critical issue. Okay, we are faced with the argument all over again about, you know, this being about jobs versus environment. No it isn't. This is about actually protecting the globe in the long term, to make sure that we tackle climate change. But in addition to that, we've demonstrated time and time again that with a Green New Deal we can provide jobs through alternative energy sources, etc. We can create the jobs and make them sustainable, rather than create jobs that actually are unsustainable in the long run — because actually, every time they've expanded Heathrow they've reduced the number of jobs with new
10:57 technology, not increased them. But in addition to that, we can ensure that we combine a strategic planning of aviation which is sustainable with strategic planning of employment at the same time. And that creativity that we had in the last campaign we need to revive, we need to do again. The timescale for this is this next 12 months, between now and the general election, because I think this is going to be a key issue that we have to put back on the agenda, that all the political parties will be seeking not even to discuss.
## Corrections
- The event is identified from the Socialist Resistance archive: the conference "Ecosocialism – Fracking, Climate and Revolution", London, 7 June 2014, hosted by Socialist Resistance and Revolutionary Socialism in the 21st Century. Eleven of the twelve recordings published on 7 June 2014 come from it. - "either", "he throws", "you throw" → **Heathrow** throughout. The captions never once get the name right. - "as individuals with introdunians" → "as individuals within trade unions". - "85 of Euclid supporters" → "85% of UKIP supporters" — a real 2013 finding, and the point of the sentence. - "the tours are trying to push that out to be any franchise" → "the Tories are trying to push that out to be re-franchised". - "the way in which a whale can be really nationalized" → "the way in which rail can be renationalised". "a whale" for "rail" recurs; "really nationalized" for "renationalised" is the commonest error in the recording. - "the group chaired by Ian labor" → **Ian Lavery**, who chaired the Trade Union Group of MPs. - "a meeting at the trade Union group of MPS in Parma" → "in Parliament". - "a sort of a grandchild of support building up" → "a groundswell of support". - "the labor party around 8 balls and others" → "around **Ed Balls** and others" — the shadow chancellor, and the whole sense of the passage. - "refusing to allow enemies front page spokesperson" → "refusing to allow any of these front-bench spokespersons". - "a majority of support in the German profit" → "in the general public". - "Ed Miller band's people" → "**Ed Miliband**'s people". - "the Howard Davis commission" → the **Howard Davies** commission (the Airports Commission); spelling per the SR archive. - "he fought and said I should have said that" → "he caught himself and said: I shouldn't have said that." A dropped negation that reverses the meaning: the admission is the point of the anecdote. - "we're working on a Prosperity basis with a whole range of conservative victims" → "on a **cross-party** basis with a whole range of **Conservative MPs**". - "actually cleared their policies" → "actually declare their policies". - "what John and Hakeem have been doing for years" → "what John and **HACAN** have been doing for years" — the Heathrow Association for the Control of Aircraft Noise, spelled HACAN in the SR archive, chaired by John Stewart, who spoke earlier at this conference. - "those little old ladies in their blue wrenches" → "in their **blue rinses**"; "at climate campus I wonder to behold" → "at Climate Camp were a wonder to behold". - "the airport itself has brought up a lot of the homes" → "has **bought** up a lot of the homes". - "still our homes still documentary our children" → "still our home, still our community, our children". - "we've demonstrated time and term we're having a green New Deal" → "time and time again that with a **Green New Deal**". - "that creativity if we had in the last campaign" → "that creativity that we had in the last campaign". - Four readings are marked and should not be taken as settled. The captions give: "significant support across the **heavy agents**"; "we have **Embark our nervous** in the green party"; "the impact of **guava juice**"; "both **average age in a conference**". The first three defeat me; for the last, "both at every union conference" fits the sense of the passage but the words are a guess. - "we have [inaudible] in the Green Party committed to renationalisation" — Natalie Bennett, then Green Party leader, spoke at this same conference and called for the railways to be renationalised, so she is the obvious candidate. The captions will not support the identification, so it is left out of the text. - Two further uncertain readings, marked: "those on the progressive side [?] within the Labour front bench" (captions: "the Progressive island"); "these are without doubt Siamese twins [?]" (captions: "without siamese twins most of our list").