00:02 John Stewart: You're quite right, we didn't spell out a vision. And you're also quite right that I'm not sure that the left generally has spelled out a vision on transport, certainly for the last 20 years, and that needs to be done. But I think what I was perhaps trying to say is, I think part of spelling out a vision — an essential part of it — is showing people in practical terms what that would mean. Yes, perhaps we do need to have written down somewhere what a
00:33 vision is, I'm sure that's right. But actually, given the fact — I think you said, Sean — given the fact that our transport system [is] built around roads, what this guy here was saying about planning is so important, given the fact [that] I think a vision, a socialist green vision, would be so fundamentally different to what we've got right now — I think we've got to start by, yes, having
01:03 the vision, but essentially spelling that out in ways that will relate to people. And that's why I was going on about, um, easier to cross the road, cycle lanes, privatisation of the railways and so on, because that's where we have to start if we've got any chance of making that vision happen. A little word on aviation, because there were one or two potentially different viewpoints coming up. Yes, aviation is a real problem in
01:35 terms of emissions and in terms of noise. I think Jonathan's right, [it] was very positive what you had to say, that there are possible ways of reducing those emissions. But I think my friend was saying, from [the] RMT — I basically go along with this — I mean, I don't think we should be in the game of saying to people "thou shalt not fly", because there are great advantages. I mean, the rich have always flown; there are great advantages of working people flying across
02:06 continents. But what I think is true is that we can't all go on flying in quite the same way we are right now. There's one startling statistic: that only 5% of the people in the world have ever flown. Now, what's going to happen if the 95% start flying in the way that the 5% currently fly? John, it won't be three runways at Heathrow, [it] won't be four, five or six — you know, forget about West Drayton [?]
02:37 or even [inaudible], it'll all be runways. It can't happen, and it can't happen in emissions terms. It seems to me what we've got to look at is the place of flying. Essentially, it seems to me, [flying] is for where there is no realistic alternative. There are good alternatives, increasingly, in video conferencing — you're absolutely right, and there have been studies done to back that up — but for intercontinental journeys it's flying. I think that means we've got to find ways of having modal shift for short-haul flights from air to rail. Not for every
03:09 single short-haul flight, but where you do have an effective, efficient and critically affordable rail service, then you will get that modal shift. So I think it's looking at flying positively, but critically looking at the role that flying and flying alone can play. I'm not going to say much more, 'cause it's almost 5 o'clock. [There was] a lot about the place of the car. I think, you know, to go back to it, it's almost
03:40 a sense of [the] vision thing and the planning thing. Yeah, cars have got to be tamed, but I believe cars have got to be tamed positively, because people do like their car, and it's a question of looking at positive alternatives so the car is used less. Two final things. I think Sean gave us the quote of the day by saying the car is capital's heroin made concrete, so I'll nick that and tweet it. And finally, Jonathan, your next
04:10 conference — you know, you said in Holland it was "good-looking socialists". So [at] the next conference are you going to be saying "good-looking socialists only", or can you take at least one of the [inaudible]?
## Corrections
- "we didn't spell out **Aion**" → "we didn't spell out **a vision**"; "part of spelling **other** a vision" → "spelling **out** a vision". - "three runways at **e throw**" → "at **Heathrow**". - "modal shift for short **off** flights ... every single short **all** flight" → "**short-haul** flights"; "that **motor** shift" → "that **modal** shift", which the captions get right the first time and wrong the second. - "one **starking** statistic" → "one **startling** statistic". - "the rich of always **flow**" → "the rich have always **flown**". - "cars have got to be **Ted** positively" → "cars have got to be **tamed** positively" — the word is correct in the first half of the same sentence. - "the car is capital **heroine Made Concrete** so I'll Nick that and **TW it**" → "the car is capital's **heroin made concrete**, so I'll nick that and **tweet it**." The phrase is attributed to Sean, a contributor from the floor. - "good alternatives increasingly in **video conf**" → "in **video conferencing**". - "I think you said **San**" → "I think you said, **Sean**" — the same contributor he credits at the end. - Two place names defeat me: "forget about **West greaton** or even **opr**". "West Drayton", near Heathrow, fits the first and is marked as uncertain; the second is left [inaudible]. - The closing joke about "good-looking socialists" at a conference in Holland, addressed to Jonathan Neale, loses its last few words in the captions ("can you take at least one of the box"), and they are left [inaudible].