recently
interviewed Cuban
Trotskyist Celia
Hart in Havana, asking her first about her forthcoming trip to CH I am going to Caracas on an invitation by the Ministry of
[Peoples' Power] for Labour and Social Security to commemorate one more anniversary of the assassination of revolutionary Leon Trotsky LM Who has organised this, the government or Trotskyist organisations? CH No, this has been organised by the Ministry of Labour and Social Security, and several comrades are going to participate, amongst them, fortunately, Leon Trotsky's grandson, Estaban Volkov; also a very old Cuban Trotskyist, Ydalberto Ferrera, 90 years old, who has had a consistent attitude towards the Cuban revolution and the ideas of Leon Trotsky, and he is going with me, together with Esteban Volkov, Ricardo Napuri and other comrades. LM What has been the impact of the Venezuelan revolution on Cuba? CH It has been the most imporThe War On
tant thing in the world, I think that the Bolivarian revolution has proven the most important ideas
of the permanent revolution, I think we are in the century of the permanent revolution. And I think, in a symbolic way, that the Cuban revolution lives in the
streets of Caracas. LM Some comrades say that the democracy that one sees in the Venezuelan revolution is having an impact in the Cuban revolution, would you say that is true? CH This is true, because there are many Cubans who travel to Venezuela, as doctors or teachers, and therefore the forms in which Venezuela carries out her revolution have an impact in Cuba. LM Is this having any practical effects? Do people arrive at a meeting and say "we need to be more democratic"? CH My problem with you and in general with the Trotskyists is about what is democracy, the concept of democracy. As a Trotskyist myself, what is democracy? I think that in Venezuela there are more sections participating in the process.
It is a young revolution in relation to ours, which is now 50 years old, and this means that without the pressures of Stalinism and the Soviet Union, it is working well.
The question as always, and as Trotsky pointed out, lies in the
revolutionary leadership.
Sometimes we are not abie to
understand the historic process
we are living through.
I think that in relation to Venezuela and Cuba there is
something I must say before the
end of the interview: a lot of Latin Americans, Cubans and Venezuelans, think that there is
only revolution on our side, but I think that without the collaboration of left-wing forces, the organisation of left-wing forces in Europe and Latin America, we will not be able to succeed.
For the first time there is a genuine globalisation of the world from the point of view of the left-wing forces. For this we need an organisation, so that the vanguard participates in the processes that are taking place. LM We were here 4 years ago, my impression is that it is slightly more prosperous. CH This is true, a few years ago we had to face the collapse of the socialist block, and now the economy has started to recover.
Last year the Cuban economy grew by 12%, but, what we must avoid is that this economic growth is of the same type as the Peoples' Republic of China. Economists will forgive me but we do not need to grow that fast, there are other priorities. LM As a tourist in Cuba there are two economies, one for Cubans who work in the tourist industry and another for those
who don't.
CH All means of production
belong to the state. What is true
is that tourism, by being the one
sector which brings more
income, has become much more
important from a purely economic point of view than other
sectors of the economy (like
education, teaching, etc). This is a contradiction. LM You were talking about Fidel's role in changing the education system in a very positive way. What do people feel Will happen after Fidel dies? CH I do not know what people will feel. Honestly there is something much more important than even Fidel and my sons, and that is the revolution. When Fidel became ill, to us revolutionaries we saw it as he had fallen in combat, because there are still so many things to do.
Like Lenin's last fight, Fidel needs to wage his last fight, and Fidel's last fight will be linked with Leon Trotsky LM Why? CH Because is the only left that is left. It is the only real point of reterence of Bolshevism. This is what Che Guevara fought until his death. Because Fidel Castro is like Lenin was, but the difference is that Fidel has been in power for 50 years, and we do not have a Trotsky, our Trotsky was killed in Bolivia LM It seems Fidel has decided "Fidel needs to wage his last fight, and linked with Leon Trotsky" to wage his last battle on biology and bio fuels. We republished an article of his in the last issue of SR. CH He knows the importance of not turning food, grains, maize, and soy, into fuel. This is related to the survival of humankind. He has even questioned his alliance with Lula in Brazil regarding biofuels. LM Your big nightmare is that China is the example that Cuba follows. CH It is a nightmare. I am a physicist and I think it is one of the possible outcomes to the problem of Cuba. This is why I am terrified.
I think that the other outcome is to prove, together with all leftwing forces in the world, that there is another way forward.
We must give more emphasis to the role being played by revolutionary events in Latin America. We must remember what Che said, that there could only be revolution in Cuba if there was revolution in the
Interview translated by Jorge Martin